All Comments on 'It’s All-Good'

what perspective.........

This is the first I've commented on a story in 4 or more months. That in itself speaks for the work.

Thank you,

Dave

to the story. This autobio piece lets the reader understand how you created such extreme characters in the story. Please remember in a novel you can build the credibility regarding characters who would be considered extreme in a short story. I am sure that Susan had a lot of good traits since she did raise 3 kids in the mess she created for them.

As they grew up those kids made adult decisions for themselves and they had to live with the consequences.___________________________________________

I find the cheating stories very interesting because it creates a martial crisis that defines who these characters are much like war dramas. What they really believe is tested and demonstrated in subsequent actions and scenarios.

___________________________________________________________

You wrote "If you have a $40,000 car and the clutch goes bad, do you throw the car away? No, you fix it. They're both good people that have a lot going for each of them. They love each other. They only need to learn how to communicate." If Susan had had her talk "Something We Have To Talk About" when she first realized that she was becoming emotionally attached to the para-legal then the clutch analogy works. They could have seen a counselor and worked out the problems in their marriage together. However, when Susan got around to talking to Jonathan the car's transmission was shot, the body of the car had rusted through at critical junctures and the engine needed to be replaced. The car moving down the road was a public safety hazard.___________________________________________________

I do not buy this political correct notion of equal blame in breakups no more than I buy equal blame in crimes like murder. Every honest accident investigation looks for contributing causes not just to allocate responsibility but to identify things to change to prevent reoccurence. Susan repeatedly ran the car (their marriage) into trees and ditches and then she tries to tell Jonathan that he must accept things as is. By the way the kids are in the backseat. You can blame Jonathan for being blind about the state of their marriage but you can not blame him for his feelings about the soiling of his relationship with her. You also blame Jonathan for not dealing with his anger in a constructive manner. But reconciliation ? Forget about it!

_________________________________________________________

I encourage you to keep writing because there is definite passion in your stories. Please remember that readers do not have this novel you are writing in your mind when they read a part of it in a short story._______________________

SleeplessinMD

yet, in a way, this was also the most believable. the "writer" inserted herself into the story, to make it believable, so it worked surprisingly well.

yet, she also finalized her portrayal of Jonathan as a man of few words, of serious reflection, and of trustworthiness and someone who, when he decides to do something, does not second guess himself.

the author indeed, indicated in the first installment that Jonathan is indeed this type of personality: once he decides that something is to be done, he will not turn back, or try to turn back the clock. This is seen when he drew the line in the sand down in the basement, as he was tunneling to build his rooms:

"From this point on, there are two things I will look out for, that I care about: yours truly and the children. You will no longer be a part of my life, my thoughts..." and he proceeded to do just that.

Yet, this last installment, eqilogue, NICI said Jonathan and that woman got back together, then broke off, and then got back to gether, many times, so many and so much arguments, they no longer who did what to whom at the beginning!

I found that to be highly unlikely, with the "personal" information the "author" gave us of Jonathan: a deeply wounded man who made a unequivocal decision to live and to love only his children and himself, with no more energy or time wasted on a woman he loved deeply who stabbed him in the back with a knife so big and long, you could see it protruding out of his chest. THAT of course made it difficult for him to breath, much less talk and "communicate" with her.........

So, again, the literary trick of inserting herself into the story, even at the tail-end of it, as she painted a grieving family seeing the destruction of two children, with Jonathan still as loner, ever-wondering in his lonely yet free world, in his 18-wheelers across endless highways, only to come back to his basement castle of impenetrability, with his beloved daughter, her husband and children living upstairs --------- this part, I thought was done with exquisite touch on the author's part......

Nice backdrop to end your story with. Good work Nici, hope to read more of you stuff in the near future.

DG Hear

...and more evidence that truth is stranger than fiction. So, this part is a true story, eh? The rest was fact-based fiction? While I still don't agree with your philosophical viewpoint and I view it as sad that he couldn't find a new woman, this one was well-written and well-told. Given that you're relating an actual account of things, I give you a 5 this time. The first of your stories to get a 5 from me, despite the tragedy of him getting trapped in his relationship with her....what I'd call a "toxic marriage". Such marriages should really be ended and the partners should move on, but they sadly sometimes can't or rather won't. That is reality. Hence the 5. Still blame her far more, of course. She was far more toxic for him than vice versa.

A daughter dead of a drug overdose, a son dead in the war, you never mentioned a husband to go with the children of the other daughter, and the Johnathan character is living a life of solitude. What's good? The wife destroyed the cohesion of the family by falling under the spell of some manipulative asshole and left her husband and children emotionally damaged. I'm thinking of how you wrote in your previous stories that the wife thought that there was nothing wrong with loving an additional man seperate and with no consideration for her family. You didn't even mention her being at the funeral. Knowing now, the result of her actions to her family, should ANYONE be sympathetic enough to her perspective for you to have spent so much time on it? There's an especially warm place in hell for people like her.

<p>This doesn't match the rest of the tone of the story to me</p>

<p>In the first story, the female wasn't that likeable. She felt selfish, hard hearted, and basicly felt evil. By that I don't mean as wanting to end the world, but like the only thing that mattered to her, after her years of marriage, was what she could get out of it at this point in her life. Like her husband stopped mattering.</p>

<p>In the second part where you tried to explain what came next, the story felt like you were trying to assign blame so that the husband was 1/2 at fault for his wife having an affair for over a year. That because he couldn't understand her emotions about "why" she felt she needed to carry on the affair, that because he wouldn't listen and agree to help her find a way where she could manage to keep both of the men in her life (in a physical and emotional relationship), he was just as wrong as she was (that her only crime was the physical act), that he also helped destroy the family because it wasn't the wife alone who did it. His lack of understanding place a major role as well.</p>

<p>But then there is this story. It "tries" to show a quite man, who you kinda imply that you personally might know, who was someone who blames himself for how the marriage went south. It doesn't match the rest. So I can't say that I liked this any better. I'm sorry I don't, but the whole premise for this story just feels like it's all over the place to me</p>

<p>First you wanted a strong woman, but most folks didn't see her as anything but selfish. Then you wanted to show a strong couple, while keeping the theme that the wife was still partially right in how she felt, but most of us still didn't agree that she was anything other than a truely selfish person who couldn't understand why a man she was married to for years couldn't agree to let her sleep around, regardless of the reasons. The 2nd part of the story even implied that <i>both</i> of them are to equally to blame for the kids being screwed up, not primarly the wife by starting it all with her affair. Now this story tries to act like the husband who most everyone felt was screwed over, himself felt he wasn't actually screwed over, but as much to blame as the wife. I still don't buy it.</p>

<p>I do say thanks for taking the time to write, but I still disagree that the was anything other than one of the most selfish people written about, and flat out refused to see herself as anything other than a victim regardless of how you might try to keep changing her character around.</P>

-Risq

based the story on true events you should get higher points. Hmmm, like that changed the story. It is built on a woman who destroyed the life of her family: her husband; her drug user daughter; her son; and her daughter who lives in original house with daddy living in the basement. It is mentioned they tried to get back together. Wonderful, after I finish digesting my food I always eat my shit to get more out of it. Once you are rid of trash you dont go the garbage heap to get it back. In here the only thing the man did wrong is not to stand up to her. Silent solitude is not living well, it is fear of living. The woman was s slut. The husband should have protected his family got evidence and rid the children of an adulterous uncaring slut so they had a chance to grow up normal. This woman actually reminds me in a weird way to the woman in Houston who killed all of children one day while hubby was at work by drowning them in the tub. They say she wasnt really responsible, yeah right, well planned and executed means not responsible? This one was well planned and well executed only hubby was at least strong enough to not say yes. The woman was mentally unstable, it can be picked up and determined by various actions thruought the series. The story itself was not a loving wife story, more likely it belonged in the Nonconset section. It was the husband and children that had a forced lifestyle placed on them by an irresponsible and uncaring woman. I dont really think the author tried to make the husband seem humiliated. She wanted him to appear not strong enough to stand up to such a cruel uncaring woman. And in turn the woman wasnt really strong, she was a pawn played by her lover who was shocked the husband didnt turn out as she was told to expect he would. In all, this family never had a chance. It was dysfunctional from the day the wife decided she could have an intimate social affair with another man and degraded from there. It is never possible to split your life, when you do, none get your best only what is left after others have taken their share. The lover showed his colors by running at the first sign of trouble the woman is attracted to weak willed men. A lot of truth in the statement that women leave on man to run to a man of the same personality and behavior type.

Sadly Tilted against your hapless male victim - nicely worded though.

Your writing is wonderful. Easy flowng and descriptive with emotion. Great writing!

If you ever get enough of his story and put it in writing, I feel he will he go through all the emotions that he felt in his life, when he reads it.

Risq,

<p>

I have to question some of your evaluations. Those, that I see being based on lacking in reading comprehension. (You/your is always meant in the plural tense, btw.)

<p>

I stated, “…where each is as emotionally strong as the other is.” You base then too many assumptions on the couple actually “being strong”. Equal strength does not equate “to being strong”. Two sheets of tissue paper can be equally strong, but not strong in comparison to sheets of Kevlar. Strength is always relative, and always needs to be put correctly into context of relativity.

<p>

Did I want characterly strong female and/or male characters? NO! That is spelled with an “N” and an “O” and is a negation. I detest stories with “strong” characters. They are so unreal, so unnatural.

<p>

Both Susan and Jonathan, from their “relative” position of strength, tried to trump the other. Each failed because the other (or events and/or third persons) counteracted against those events they put into place. Kind of like real life, huh? That’s Subjective Chance.

<p>

Others will write sequels adding in events and persons to unbalance “the balance of power” between the two. That’s fine. That does not change my point, or the validity of my point, one drop. The only thing that does, is give the reader emotional satisfaction, and as such, is a form of denial. In real life, success comes from personal hard work, in fantasy, from lucky events, other people, and cheap tricks.

<p>

Next point of contention: I wrote, “I do not even closely believe that 99% of people who cheat are so wacko, so abnormal.”

<p>

What value does the word “so” bring to the meanings of the words “wacko” and “abnormal”? How can you equate “not being so abnormal” to therefore “being normal”?

<p>

Anyone cheating “has to be” abnormal to some degree. There can be no “if, “and” or “buts” about it.

<p>

But again, there will always be degrees of abnormality… in all of us. That Susan “at that point in time” was “borderlining” or “tending towards” some serious mental illnesses is unquestionable.

<p>

Yet, she was functional. Outside of those areas where she was in denial, she could “fairly well” evaluate stimulus properly and therefore her over-all behavior would fall into the category of “normalcy”. Deviant in behavioral patterns? Beyond question, yes. Deviant to the point of having a mental disorder? No. Big difference, there are tons of people who have grave deviations in their mental “bild” yet function “normally” in everyday life.

<p>

Susan’s behavior “at that point in time” is relative to her innate tendencies. However, without the environment to develop those tendencies to that needed extreme, cheating is not going to happen. She could only develop to the extremes needed for her to cheat, and have the attitude she had, in isolation. Living in an isolated condition… in a marriage where each sees the other everyday? Now, how could that happen? Ah Duh! Do I have to use the term, “Lack of Communication”?

<p>

Was he more right than she? Of course he was, by far! Yet, right and wrong will never be so black and white. They will always be in shades of gray. Your POV (as the reader) of Susan has to be that she is “the bad guy”. Did I leave you any other chance at thinking otherwise? How bad, how evil you see her, depends on the depth, context, gender association, and the direction of your perception. I would hope that even if you see her fairly black, you are able to also see the shades of gray in her.

<p>

Thirdly, I’m surprised I even have to say this; “It’s all-good” is an urban slang expression, “Whatever happens, good or bad, it’s all good, deal with it.”

<p>

Lastly, The father in “It’s All-Good” said he was Jonathan. I did not. Since posting the full storyline on ASSTR, SOL and here, and especially since posting “It’s All-Good” I have received 16 emails where the context states, “I too am Jonathan.” All marriage counselors know of hundreds of Jonathan cases. So, what relevancy does the father in “It’s All-Good” have with the behavior of Jonathan in “Something We Have To Talk About”? One is in my mind, and a composite of my knowledge and learned experiences, and the other is a real life person… also two different people. Don’t go there, illogical assumption.

<p>I basis my <i>assumptions</i> like most everyone else that read the storyies, on what was in the stories as well as what you said in your comments.</p>

<p>In the opening of <I><b>Something We Have to Talk About</b></i> you made this comment:</p>

<p><i>But, in too many cheating wife stories I have read, the female characters seemed to either have a full blown narcissistic personality disorder, a histrionic personality disorder or they're so weak and spineless that I can only wonder how they could ever exist in the real world. They can't. They can only exist in the fantasies of testosterone overdosed, teenaged minds.</i></p>

<p>Based on that statement, you said that women don't act this way. And you also said in the opening <i>Since I do love tragedies and this is not real life, so no one has to pick up the broken pieces, don't expect any happy endings. Not in this story, for sure.</i> it doesn't take much for me to believe that you felt that there was an "imbalance" between how the females acted in various stories and how they "quickly" give up and turn into shells of themselves when confronted with the cheating. That too many writers focused on the actions and not the why. That the why might make it all right, or in some cases noble.</p>

<p>You also said this at the begining of part one:</p>

</P>I'm writing this story, putting emphasis on creating a couple where each is as emotionally strong as the other is. A real-life couple, who interact with each other along logical lines of subjective chance. Cheating and adultery is about passion, love, anger and hate. Cheating and adultery is about conflict, conflict between partners where one is pushing for change and the other not. Events must happen where change is inevitable, conclusive and consequential.</i>

<p>But how did you do that? You had the wife come in give the husband an ultimatum, derided him as a male (told him we was fat and wasn't meeting her needs, and how good the sex was with the new guy) and basicly told him he was screwed if he didn't see it her way. What was Jonathan's reactions near the end of part one where he was basicly blindsided by all of this? Let me paste it for you from the first story:</p>

<p><i>Jonathan stiffly walked over into the kitchen and pulled a bottle of Jim Beam from out of one of the cabinets. Before moving back into the dining room he tipped the full bottle up and drank letting the liqueur flow down his throat in three than a final four heavy gulps</i></P>

<p>It wasn't hard to see that the male was supposed to be the weaker and loser of this encounter, regardless of what you said here in the comments, with things like this pepering most of the stories: <i>"I don't know what else I can say or tell you. I only thought that your love for me would be strong enough for you to look past your <b>male ego</b> and <b>selfish desires</b> and want the best for me. I'm sorry if you can't do that. I'm very sorry."</i><p>

<p>So lets see, so far you have the woman walk in and tell the husband that she's cheating, has no intention to stop, and the only problem the wife sees with this is that husbands ego and selfishness is preventing him from seeing that this is what is best for <b>both</b> of them? I know too many people where sex is just that. Sex. There are no deeper meanings behind them</p>

<p>That is what is in the <i>First</i> story. In the second I still didn't see how you redeemed anyone.</p>

<p>But then you added this comment to the bottom of the second part:</p>

<p><i>I see two equally strong <b>in character persons</b>, with strengths and weaknesses, making mistakes. I see two very average people who had a nice life, but sucked <b>when it came to communicating</b>. That destroyed their marriage. <b>Who</b> was to blame? They <b>both</b> were.</i></p>

<p>Again this differed from the opening story. How can the majority of the readers see her as anything but selfish, but in the ending of the second you still equally blame the breakup of the marriage on them both in your authors comments? That we some how missed something that was to be inferred in the first story? Thats why I said that it doesn't match. It had nothing to with part one. In part two you tried to make it seem like because she was getting some emotional needs met she wasn't totally to blame. But the fact is she was married, according to the story. In the <i>average</i> marriage it means no other man (or woman) is to be sought or let fill any needs whether emotional or physical. If she felt the husband wasn't getting the job done she should have moved on to a man who was, and cut the husband free to do the same. By not doing that, it <b>did</b> make her the bad guy. Your trying to make her actions noble, but the fact is this Cheating is cheating. There are no <i>Shades</i> of grey when it comes to that. Only cheaters try to develop and create shades of grey once they are caught. To everyone else, who doesn't cheat, its purely black and white. And I doubt your going to convince me or anyone else that cheating on someone for over a year, giving them an ultimatum (all while running them down and telling them they have no other options but to just shut up and live with it), and then telling everyone that the act of extra marital sex itself irrelavant, all that matters is if the wife is happy emotionally, whether if it is with the husband or any other male outside of a marriage is just as bad as trying to tell me that my gender is making me not see the shades of gray in cheating.</P>

<p> Let me say this Nici, since I'm putting all my cards on the table. My parents are recently divorced. My Dad decided to so what the wife did in this story. I blame him for that, not my Mom. My sister in-law was divorced once and cheated on her new husband, the guy she was cheating on her first husband with, once she married him. Twice. Both times she moved out of the home with the 2nd husband and into a home with her new boyfriends once he caught her. And she left him with the kids. Both of her kids are still seeing shrinks over that. My mother inlaw to this day says she wished her daughter would have gotten some disease, or divorced again, so that she would have understood the risk involved with what she was doing. Long as her 2nd husband was willing to keep taking her back, she was willing to keep cheating. My brother inlaw just recently left his wife for another woman once he got caught after a two year affair. I might only have a minor in psychology but I'm not an idiot. I can see from the sidelines how selfish actions like these are destroying families. Whether the mate takes them back or they get divorced. In this paragraph alone I cited 2 males and 1 female that I <i>personally</i> first hand that are affecting others by their cheating. And all have family with 2 kids or more. The only thing that mirrors your story was that my sister in-law's second marriage stayed together for the kids and because of the fact that her 2nd husband had been married 3 times and had been the cause of 2 marriages to be broken up. He felt he was to blame for his past actions and that some how staying with her was now his pentance.</p>

<p>My wife just sat me down yesterday, because she was worried with all the cheating going on in our family, if I ever had thoughts about it and wanted to assure me that she never did and didn't want me to ever believe she did. Normally that might make me worry, but she was worried that with her brother and sister doing it that I might start to suspect her and it would destroy the family. And I have to give her credit, she did what I was suggesting people should have been doing in your story, talking before actions. Then she wanted to talk with our kids so that we could explain to them what they were seeing going on with their Aunt and Uncle, and why Grandpa no longer lives with Grandma. I don't believe my mothers refusal to put up with my Dad's actions are shades of grey. He was willing to screw up a family instead of talking to my mother to either find a balance where she could possibly meet what he thought were his needs or get a divorce and be with the other woman. But like the female lead in the story he took the cowards way out and looked for a way to have everything without giving up nothing. He was willing to lie and cheat to make sure he didn't have to face any conflict. Either with a divorce or an angry mate.</p>

<p>You can tell me till the cows come home about how how many councilers say what Johnathan did was common. I'm here to tell you from my experience both with my family and with 6 other people that I know again personally, it is not. Not everyone goes to councilors when the mate cheats. Some say its unacceptable and ask for a divorce. Not every affair lets both partys off without pregnacy or disease. Not every affair is just something that lets the one cheating "find" something that they are missing. And yes to me it is black or white. Either you talk with your mate and try to capture what you feel is missing in the marriage or you get divorced and find what is missing with someone else. Trying to get what your missing from one person, while maintaining a stablity of being married, is just selfish to me. It's like trying to make sure you always have a hidden "do over" if anything goes wrong. While not giving you marriage mate that same option.<p>

<p>And that is what makes it selfish, not illogical.</p>

-Risq

Risq, thank you for your comments and your honesty. I hope that you and your wife will continue to talk with each other and that you can grow closer in spite of the stuff going on around you. Risq, you are all too correct on the effects that lying and cheating have on the kids. Sleepless, you are correct in that the broken clutch analogy doesn't hold relative to Susan's initial behavior.

<p>Nici, you've done a great job portraying very common situations and the emotions that go with these situations. I guess I'm your 17th Jonathan - been there, done that - but made the decisions to (1) shelter my kids as much as I could from their mom's narcissism - was fortunate that I got custody - and (2) divorce and start over. For the record, and as alluded to by Risq's comments, I don't think either gender has a monopoly on the kinds of behaviors Susan or Jonathan exhibited. This story could very credibly have been written with Jonathan the lying cheat and a flawed and bewildered Susan trying to deal with it, but the end result would have been the same - both parents and the kids lose.

I greatly enjoyed all three of these stories. You are obviously an excellent writer capable of depicting people's emotions. If, however, your goal was to create a story where there were shades of gray, you didn't succeed very well. Her behavior, from the first story to the second, is unacceptable. The second story seemed like you were trying to soften or change her. While people can be difficult one day and pleasant the next, her behavior and comments were so extreme in the first story, that the change was too abrupt to be believeable. She had no real redeeming qualities. If your goal is to write a story where the reader feeling sympathy for both sides (the sign of an excellent story), her behavior must be portrayed more softly and subtly. She came across as a hateful bitch, that was worthy of no sympathy from anyone. Great story, please submit more. Your writing is both enjoyable and thought provoking, even if I don't like the thoughts it provokes.

This was my comment on the other story regarding Susan's lover.

Which "Peter" was the more callous, Nici's or Poorrichard's....I would say Nici's. Poorrichard's Peter was very one dimensional, a goof that anyone with a pea brain could have deduced over a one year relationship...so he was too obvious and very easy to dislike.

But Nici's Peter on the other hand was a mind player from the get go. He was manipulative, sophisticated, emotionally injured and easy to like. His character was too well crafted by Nici to dislike...almost feminine in nature. But my problem with Nici's Peter, is that Susan to the very end still held no negative feelings for Peter and no hate for the damage he did to her marriage. What is remarkable, was that in the beginning, Susan was there for Peter to help him with his problems and to comfort him. Yet, in Susan's most needy moment for emotional assistance and comfort, Peter disappears and moves away to leave her alone with her struggle. Doesn't she get it. Susan was used by a weak pretentious selfish man who dumped on her at the moment of her need. And Susan's reaction to all this was to come home one night and very "butch like" tell hubby she was serving him divorce papers. Maybe the character development was because of Nici's sexual orientation...but hey..that never interfered with Oscar Wilde and Somerset Maugham two of my all time favs.

Nici. I go with Kolkore on the previous chapter. Separate the theory and the fiction. The vitriol poured on your story stems mostly from your opening and resulted in inflexible attitudes to the rest of the story. Sound like someone you wrote about? I fell into the trap when I read the first chapter. The second left me still furious but questioning why you had written characters so obviously at odds with your stated position. By the third I thought I had an idea of what you were trying to say. I still can't make up my mind about including this chapter. The first conclusion I have come to is that I would have liked to have seen the whole story presented without your preamble and subsequent comments. I think that would have ellicited different reactions. I don't think it would have reduced the volume but they might have been less dogmatic and more questioning. The second conclusion is that I will look for rurther posts from you. I find your style challenging and that is good. Personally, after reading about Cindy's father, I'd still torch the bitch, but slowly.

I have in my notes an analysis of the wife’s character in the previous story. I conclude there that you would do best if you write about what you know best. Preferably- first hand experience. I am so glad to see that on your own you gravitated in this direction. It shows! The details the acute observations the rhythm of the narrative, it was sumptuous. Very credible, with colors smells and feelings.

True it was not a follow up story. In fact I would not call it a story (not a fiction). But that’s ok, I am not a stickler for categories, and I could see where you were going. Even as a non fiction or a mini memoir it was great.

For story though I would beg you stick to your characters. If you don’t trust them we won’t either. Practice dialogs, since your descriptions are a natural forte. Let the characters speak THEIR ideology not yours. I could see how much compassion you have for that father of your friend. Speak from his POV, not yours. For your ideas write essays. They will be very good on their own. That’s it. I figured you out. That will be 150. JUST KIDDING!

Good luck! I did enjoy this one as a clean stand alone!

Nici. I feel that this part is a reaction to all the hysteria you elicited. It is written well and has the feeling of veracity but I just feel you would not have written it if you hadn't been subjected to such a tirade of negative comment. I don't think you need to explain or justify your stories and, to me, it feels exactly that. Your writing stands on its own. People who dislike it, do so only because their life experience is not yours. Their lives will colour their thoughts and they will not see things as you do. They are entitled to their opinions, as they are just as valid as yours. To change their opinions requires a willingness on their part to change their mind. Their experience may be too strong to accept your arguments and this does invalidate either your position or theirs. To me , this chapter feels, too much, as if you are trying to explain your previous story. It isn't needed. Your writing stands on its own two feet. I may disagree with some things you say but you are well worth reading. Like I said before, write your stories, consider critiques and disregard criticism. Keep it up. TTB--------------------- To Kolkore. I hadn't read your posts on 12 Feb to the previous chapter when I wrote the one below. Glad to see I'm not wandering in my own parallel universe. Nice to see encouragement and constructive suggestions rather than invective.

KUDOS TO YOU YOU HAVE POLISHED THE TURD AGAIN! WHERE DO YOU BUY YOUR TURD POLISH? BTW IT STILL A TURD!

You just described my dad and my uncle except the were very slim and talked just like you decribed. He died at the age of 89 and had seen more of life than a person could have at twice the age. Thanks again.

While this story was sad the real saddness was due to the fact that neither parent could see the real problem was not about the money but teaching the children to live in a broken home and never fixing it. As your story shows the best thing for everyone would have been to divorice. Both deserve the misery both for different reasons. Her because she was extremely selfish and him because he was too weak or scared to do what needed to be done. Money is not the be all and end all. He was doomed when he choose to stay for financial reasons. And all I can say for her is if she NEVER finds peace and happiness it will still be a day too soon!

I have to say that it has been one of the more engaging stories I have read in quite some time. After reading 'B2L 1,' I was halfway expecting him to become the cliched wimp cuckold hubby that seems so rampant in the world of erotic writing.

The female character's psychology is so twisted and warped, and her audacity to attempt to defend her actions out of one mouth after proclaiming her husband's paramount importance in her life with the other is shocking, but then again, how many real-life cheaters do the same? She then goes on to state that he (the lover) is not a part of their lives, which is an unfathomable statement. But through all of this drivel she became almost 'normal' for a few moments until she took the tone that she was in the right somehow, as if falling in love with this other man (an action that broke the marriage vows *SHE* sought to mention) was somehow justified.

Then he suggested that he cheat on her, at which point she completely emasculated him and basically said things that would have invalidated any reason for her possibly wanting to keep the marriage together. At that point she simply became a selfish cunt who was trying to have it all regardless of the cost to others, rather than a woman who had made a mistake and was sincerely interested in putting the shattered pieces of her marriage back together.

Her husband's reactions were all over the place, from denial to rage and everywhere in between, but I'm not so sure if I agree with him moving *himself* into the basement as opposed to sending her packing. For the most part, I agree with TTB; he should have torched the bitch.

Now you would have us belive this is a true story?!?!?! You have only written this because of all the people saying that a husband would never do what you wrote. Btw the dude that called it a turd was right and no amount of polish will change that!!!!!

happened before most states had this no fault divorce law. Maybe not as far back as when adultry was a criminal offense. Personally I feel that states that have the no fault divorce laws are a bit primitive and just havent gotten to the twentieth century yet. Maybe they can skip one and just jump in the 21st with laws that do offer blame and give the children to the spouse that will provide decent role models for them no matter which sex they are.

Nicely done. Very real.

I enjoyed this 4-part story immensely. I salute and commend Nici for her interesting contribution here. This story is indeed an engaging, memorable, realistic and compelling read. You have great literary potential; so please keep it up!

That NO man or woman for that matter who truly believes they are in a loving relationship could fail to be devastated by the cheating behavior of their spouse. Then to make matters much worse, to be told bluntly, that not only was she cheating but she was going to continue to cheat. And finally, to have the whoring cheating slut wife actually expect that the failure of their marriage was some how primarily HIS fault is the ultimate bull shit in self delusion. The author seems to think this is correct thinking. That makes the story much more like fantasy that any kind of truth. This last chapter is a forlorn attempt to make the story seem true. Either the first three chapters were bull or the last chapter is. Both cannot be true.

Perfection Write his story, Nici girl!

If you do write his story, do your father and all the rest of us Literotica readers a favor and write "his" story without your "man-haters" slant.

What the hell does this have to do with the original string? Stick to lesbian and man hating themes.

she is a good woman? for her egoistic behaviour, she victimized at least 3 people. a daughter who killed herself and a son who rather wanted to be in war and got killed and an ex-husband who needs to be alone wandering through the country. of course it's only his fault, he did not love her enough, right ? hey in some cases their is not much grey, she has a black soul and still thinks she is the one on the right side. may she rot in hell!

Very nice way to finish it -

I am sorry you found out they way you did how this affects the real people - Cindy might have warned you - maybe she did not make the connection.

Love is easy - trust is hard - you seem to be learning that the hard way too - good luck

You say that this is the conclusion to the story how exactly is it that?

And leaning on HA to save your previous chapters ....... No further comments

Keep the pseudo-intellectual drama to yourself you nincompoop. Trying to sound "smart" in the LW comment section? With BILLY, DWmoron, HIV and the rest to contend against? Maybe I'll make myself feel like a bad-ass by going to the local kindergarten and beating up 5 year olds.

The attempted moralizing in this epilogue is the same as the bleating of the wannabe cucks decrying the wife-sharing stories, just pretending to 'smart.'

Keep the pseudo-intellectual drama to yourself you nincompoop. Trying to sound "smart" in the LW comment section? With BILLY, DWmoron, HIV and the rest to contend against? Maybe I'll make myself feel like a bad-ass by going to the local kindergarten and beating up 5 year olds.

The attempted moralizing in this epilogue is the same as the bleating of the wannabe cucks decrying the wife-sharing stories, just pretending to 'smart.'

Just "mire" inches, huh? But then I would not proof read this shit either...

AND THE EXPLAINING RELATED TO THE WHOLE FAMILY. TK U MLJ LV NV

...for a poor piece of crap.

Not worth the effort

1

Seek help.

in need of a crainial labotomy, not just the frontal but the whole damned thing!

Was this shit?

Abyssinian for cuckold

We know you can write but, an emotional, romantic idiot that drags your readers along to nothing...what an Insult!!!

We all know that Johnathon's wife was a sneak, a cheat, manipulative, cunning and cold - not to mention selfish so...

Why the hell can't you write a real ending...did he commit suicide, did he totally tear the lawyer apart, did he file for divorce, did he just walk away and hide for years, did he take the kids and run?????

He was devastated and she is a cold hearted tramp - you OWE your readers a real ending, even if it is without violence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you real? Do you really exist? I have never seen such drivel in my life. Are you still alive? Thank the Lord there's nothing worthwhile left of yours to read.

If alive have you been committed yet? If yes, where? You really are delusional.

a meaty cock smoked, a cornhole rudely buggered, betrayed!

It's not all good. I read all your stories on this subject and left a comment after the second of "two lovers" stating that you were not a coward. I still don't think you are a coward. I do think you, at least slightly, follow JPB's idea of not being able to finish. You are in a rush to move on and don't complete. Similar to doctors that throw prescriptions your way and move to the next paying patient. Moving on to other authors. You could have been a contender.

of what may come to pass, TK U MLJ LV NV

you cant end it here finish this .its not easy to see from the male point of view.when a lawyer tells you about you need proof for an alienation lawsuite ,then lets slip that she and her whole office saw the couple together,that means get a new lawyer and go after her lovers money .thats what a man would do.not hide in the basement.

After reading all of these stories from you, and your comments before and after, I feel obligated to point out that while you say "both characters are strong personalities", that is not the sense I get. The character of Susan starts out as a spoiled and incredibly selfish individual, but she does start to grow up in the sequel. Jonathan starts out as a typical hard working, but fairly simple man, who has a terrible situation thrust upon him with no warning. Both stories are lacking a depth of emotion required to flesh out the characters, but for the venue you've chosen to exibit this story in; appropriate!!

Good job!!

Nice, I liked it.

is SCOOBY-DOO.....and why has she absconded with her talent. TK U MLJ LV NV

Thanks for sharing your heart and giving us a glimpse into your motivations for writing. This part was a little confusing for me, but heartfelt nonetheless.

more cuckie garbage and nothing but garbage. that shit about getting back together was bullshit, that was never going to happen. this is just more shit from a writer than thinks fucking over the man that loved and supported you was just so heartfelt when it was just garbage about a whore not worth feeding your shit if she was starving.

Writing this silly epilogue that tries to suggest that this story and the previous ones are based in reality is just a terrible plot contrivance that fails miserably. It simply removes any plausibility or believability from the previous chapters. You should have left this epilogue on your computer. UGH!

I'm a Vietnam veteran. I was there three times between 1964 and 1966; first as a grunt, then back as a corpsman, last as 90U20 physicians assistant at a base hospital. I have a friend at a Veterans Cemetery in Central Maryland, and a cousin resting in a grave in Dagsboro, Delaware both of whom came back in boxes. My cousin was seventeen. Don't believe the nineteen bullshit. Today I can't stand the sight of blood, I get sick at the smell, and I hate saran wrap. Your thing about the flag and the medals made me unhappy. I felt like you violated something; violated as in sullied something. I feel shame for what you said in this epilogue. I usually leave my identity when I write a comment, but not this time. I can't bring myself to do it. The old man who drove the truck, if he was Jonathon, and if he was real would never have let you write what you did, not if he'd been there. I almost always give fives; not this time.

Seems funny to say that -

Writers get their stories from, well, inside their heads - so to find out you got one that is more based on your real life than you consciously knew seems perfectly reasonable.

Now what is also interesting to me is that you now also see that there could be much more to Jonathon than you realized - did that also help to see there might be much less to Susan than you gave credit for? You now acknowledge a who;le new set of characteristics that could have existed in Jonathon and see him in a different light including how he ended up in the long term. Did you also learn that Susan had more too - like taking his son's mementos exclusively? A sign of love or respect for the boy father??? Seems to be the same selfish - it's all about me - woman we first met.

It doesn't even fit with the crap that preceded it.

Nici, you wrote this along time ago. I read it when you posted it. I did not like how your original story went, but this epilogue was touching and I do hope it leads you to write your novel. You are a good writer and your description of "your Jonathon " certainly fits some of the men I grew up with and admire to this day. Tough, quite, thoughtful, and very perceptive.

Thank you

and act accordingly no matter the circumstance or situation. TK U MLJ LV NV

"A national Guardsman, who in fulfilling his promise to country, had broken his promise to us. Leaving us alone and without him."

It's obvious you never served. It's not like some of us broke that promise on purpose. Some of us made it back, some didn't, because that's the job we took and oath we swore. We believe we are doing it for our country and our families. You don't have to agree with it or like it, and you're incapable of understanding it. Those who lose a loved one have a right to be bitter, but if they can't understand those of us who did serve, they should have least have the respect to not speak ill of those who gave their full measure of devotion.

Enough said

Too bad she didn't take her shit stories with her.

Well written. Sometimes there are no winners, only losers.

Some confusing points/sequences. Who was Susan? If Joey's funeral was at the end of the story, why did Dad say Mom had already taken the flag, medals, and photos? I hope I will find other authors' sequels.

I don't see how this has ANYTHING to do with the prior stories.

The connection to the story is not direct but I loved your feelings and what you discovered.

You are out of touch with human emotions. You have no concept of marriage. Marriage vows are meaningless to you. You have no true understanding of right and wrong. You have nothing to offer a man but sex. And he can get that from any prostitute or lonely woman.

so is this the stories ive read that seem to be a spin off from.

How can anyone be so empty and dark. You scare me. I suspect there is a special hell for you. It's called life. May yours be miserable.

This is sad what the mother did to her family. The father said he cared for two things his children and himself. He didn't make it in taking care of them, the wife mother what did she do? The out come is sad, if you do return to writing it may be of help to be upbeat in your writing. Two dead, one drug overdose, one dead hero and one seemed okay, (1/3) no (2/3) doing they went to very extremes. One voice, who is the blame for the outcome of the family. Keep writing you will do better.

I like this more than your actual story.

Everything in life is patterns. People, natural phenomena, everything. We replicate patterns in our lives constantly; behaviors and motions and decisions, predictable to the point of certainty if you know someone and the situation well enough.

Some people can only think of themselves. They replicate this pattern in every decision they make; they'll put up appearances and they'll show compassion and empathy but when the choice needs to be made, they'll always sacrifice others in their place every time.

Your friend's mother is this sort of person. Faithless, selfish, prideful. It wounded her family, wounded her husband, and in the end, she can't stop. It's her nature. It's generally the nature of those who cheat in relationships.

The phrase 'once a cheater, always a cheater' exists because people replicate the same patterns in their life until some trauma changes their pattern, something they can't handle ever happening to them again. Your friend's father had this happen to him and it changed him fundamentally; altered his patterns forever. Your friend's mother never did.

This isn't intended as a judgement, though I don't consider being judgmental to always be an unworthy trait. Recognizing that people operate in patterns, and what those patterns are for the people in your life, is key to successfully navigating it, and also in recognizing that no matter what we want, sometimes you can't save someone from themselves and you shouldn't feel guilty because they kept replicating their self-destructive pattern.

Best of luck, I think you'll do well with your novel, if you ever publish it.

I'm sorry to correct you about the term "once a cheater allways a cheater ",this does NOT mean that the person will allways repeat the same mistake,it is about how people will look at the cheater for the rest of his/her life,it's about reputation not behaviour

Ok, first the woman is totally at fault for this tragedy. It is a solid tragedy with the husband not knowing until she told him. Heres some truths first, why doesnt have to be so important. It never affects the outcome just pisses the injured spouse off more. The kids finally tuned out, maybe even had ptsd. I have it, its like living in my own private hell which is what they did. Third, the reality part was splendid and sordid. The husband really went over the road...well that was his way of dealing with the pain. I deal with pain much the same way...i do it in plain sight though. Good writing, and did you write the novel?

Fuuuuuck mee man! I have never read anything worse ! Shit start shit ending WHY BOTHER COMMENTING ! Love you all! GREG. OH NO STARS NO SHIT BYE

Another illiterate WHORE posting cuck shit.

I'm glad you quit writing. You have zero talent.

so did either parent take responsibility for fucking up their youngest daughters mind?

the children truly did suffer in the aftermath of her betrayal and their divorce.

for sharing that.

you are an excellent writer. It's a little different from a woman's point of view. Keep it up.

i hope the cunt died in pain after a long bout of aids related illnesses.

MINUS 5*!!!

Dear god, a bullet would have been more merciful than reading this drivel.

I think the story I read written by someone else came across better

pguk

This comment applies to all four parts of this story. I don't know whether nici is the worst author on Lit, but I put this contribution in the bottom 1% that I have read.

This is an incredibly passive way of saying 'Boy, I didn't think things through' when she wrote her original story.

Not even an apology. It took the crushing soul destroying occurrence of a friend/daddy crush for her gain even a semblance of empathy.

Thanks for nothing after four stories. Susan was the failure here, not John. You never did make any point except that Susan was an unrepentant cheater. This epilogue added nothing to your story at all.

Really not worth reading. I had hoped for some redemption but none came! I stand by my original comment on the first chapter of this soul less story! That a woman could be so selfish and careless to live such a life is beyond any belief that such a deplorable character could exist. There really should be a zero star category for such despicable attempts at writing. My only hope is that 'nici' is in no part similar to this awful female creature! 1* for pure gall, and NOT in a good way!

Why is is billed as part of the stry only to lay out a biographical narrivte describing the author interacting with the people she based her story on?

This adds nothing to your other stories in this series. You wrote above "what took him from his secure job as a mechanic" I'm guessing that might be his cheating wife, who for some reason you seem to exonerate repeatedly.

Really?

Starting off with Jonathan, Jonathan, Jonathan, Jonathan. Much more repetitiveness in the middle. Ending with something that has nothing to do with the story, with the exception of the author's own revelations. Yep, it's all bad.

This time you need to give us insight into who and what is going on before you begin this. It's not a good story.

You had a story you wanted to tell and you did a fairly good job of doing it. Yeah it needed some editing and there's probably a need for a safe space where new writers can get constructive criticism and help with things like structure, pacing, dialog etc instead of jumping right into the piranha wading pool of internet feedback. I think that most of those who keep posting for any amount of time form relationships with editors,other authors, partners and/or others that provide mutual support and encouragement lacking in the feeding frenzy of the comments. I hope you've moved on from here and found what you were looking for but if not, you should take note that you made a lot of folks very uncomfortable. Maybe enough so that they'll come back and look again and think about what you were trying to do and why what you wrote bothered them so much. If not at least they were bothered.

.

your story is nothing more than justification for a whore wife. You want forgiving see a priest.

perspicacious man that was just brimming with quiet wisdom take the time to explain to you how delusional you are and what a ridiculous, self-serving pile of steaming idiocy your story was?

None of your nasty critics had a clue as to what you have written here.

It is catastrophic damage to the lives of their children .

Let alone the cost to Jonathan.

A marriage is built primarily on three things Love, Trust and Respect. You seem to be taking the side of Susan, where she was having an affair with another person for awhile and was selflessly thinking she could do this and her husband would accept this. I think you have a lot to think about if you think any spouse would accept this arrangement. Do you really think this is OK?

This was the end of a great series. Nuanced and thoughtful. Please write more!

Not when one is a cheating whore that is full of self pity. 3. Her side of the story is irrelevant.